NATO, Submarines and Looking Back on Tragedy

Join Victor Davis Hanson and cohost Jack Fowler to explore and explain NATO’s expansionism, US military decisions—abortion v. equipping our submarine fleet—our fleets history, victimology, “Killer King” hospital, and the beautiful memory of tragedies past.

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9 thoughts on “NATO, Submarines and Looking Back on Tragedy”

  1. The destruction of Germany shifted the greatest threat to British-French hegemony onto Russia, and at this point, WW III is the only thing that can come from NATO. The USA either must withdraw from it after the next election, or expand it radically. We need a statesman, an idealist like Woodrow Wilson, who will admit Ukraine — and simultaneously Russia — to NATO, welcoming a diversity of nations in the name of peace. Instead our rulers insist on conformity of “democracy” and a unipolar world of top-down authoritarianism dictated by Brussels, London, and Washington. The USA would not fear the Primakov doctrine if it had a stable currency backed by gold and silver.

    On submarines – a man such as Rickover would never be permitted to lead in today’s woke military. From Wilson’s presidency to Reagan’s (the one who ‘retired’ him) the military Rickover served in changed drastically as technology advanced. Remember the NSSM-200 promulgated by Nixon (*who destroyed the gold standard) and Kissinger established to this day depopulation as national and international US policy. This explains the focus on abortion, and the incessant fraternizing among the military, especially on nuclear aircraft carriers. No one today would suggest women should not serve in the military; it’s not even open for discussion, taboo, forbidden. But abortion? The military is enthused by it.


      Wilson was a disaster, in foreign policy and domestically. He did not understand the world or human nature. He is hardly an example to emulate.
      Adding Russia to NATO will not restrict her aggression or solve any of her policy goals, any more than having Turkey in NATO has eliminated her old enmity with Greece.

  2. Great! I can relate in so many ways. 1, I’ve read many of VDH’s books, going back to “Who Killed Homer?”. 2, I’m almost an octogenarian who grew up a mile so. of Graceland whose mat. g-mother talked the same way his pat. g-father did, same colloquialisms. 3, I’m also Navy vet who’s concerned abt Navy’s choice of ships to procure & Navy’s inability to maintain fleet operational readiness, both ships & crews. A man w/ whom I served went on to be last C.O. of ship to be engaged in a naval battle, U.S.S. Gary (“Tanker War” by Zatarain). 4, VDH’s connection to classics reminded me of Adm. Stockdale attributing having studied Epictetus’ Stoicism for helping him get through Hanoi Hilton captivity. Mostly, I loved the discussion of the South. Here, my mat. g-father was killed pursuing a robber in 1933. My mother had to spend summers at frmr plantation in AL w/ her g-aunt. There, her playmates were black kids, descendants of slaves. It bothered her she couldn’t walk into town w/ them. Consequently, the “N” word was never allowed in our house. In late ‘90s & early ‘00s, I was involved w/ Hoover Institution. My daughter & I heard Lady Thatcher speak when she was honored at big event in 2000.

  3. Joel Savransky

    As a wise man once said of the Navy……you have submarines and you have targets! What hasn’t this administration not f____d up?? I think we really are doomed to the dustbin of history! I truly shed tears for our beloved Nation!

  4. When memory speaks, stop & listen. It may be a trickle or a gusher. It springs from life lived. Imbibe deep this elixir of qualia, sensations as real as then.

  5. Mr Hanson and Mr Fowler,

    Regarding your comments that you have never been inside a submarine. There is a World War II submarine the USS Pampanito docked at the Wharf in San Fransisco. You can take a tour throughout the ship. Your time spent below deck on the ship will make you thankful for the bravery of the men who served aboard these vessels.
    Also there is another great reminder of World War II docked at San Pedro harbor in Los Angeles. The battleship USS Iowa. Staffed and maintained by veterans it is well worth a visit.

    My best to you both.


    1. Robert Cherba

      There’s also a German submarine at Chicago’s Museum of Science and Industry, or whatever they call it these days.

  6. Charles Carroll

    John Kirby earned his Surface Warfare Officer qualification and then immediately switched to public relations.

    If anyone wants to appreciate submarines, read “Blind Man’s Bluff”

  7. I so much appreciated the discussion about race relations. In the mid-sixteen hundreds, my mother’s ancestors settled in North Carolina, and there and in Virginia did they stay for the next three hundreds years. Some ten or so years ago we were, of course, not surprised thru DNA that our ancestors were both enslavers and enslaved. Two years ago, my sister and I traveled to Swansboro to meet our cousins. They welcomed us with open arms. We spent the week together visiting cemeteries, archives, farms, museums, shops, and our ancestors homes, now on the national register.

    At week’s end, we attended Zakiya and Zaid’s fiftieth wedding anniversary with their eight children. They had married when Zakiya was fifteen. Their home is now in Washington DC.

    Before we left, we visited with Zakiya’s mother, Grandma Hazel – a classic matriarch. I cannot describe the spirit of that time in her home out in the black farmlands. After two hours of conversation, we got up to leave. I noticed some framed family photos on the credenza. One of them caught my attention. Zakiya was standing next to President Obama. In wonder, I asked Zakiya what she was doing with the president. She responded, “Oh, that’s our son standing on the other side of him. He’s Obama’s personal attorney.” Oh, the nobility, the steadfastness, the reality of our nation, the honor. What are people thinking? It can be this sweet.

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