Victor Davis Hanson // The Free Press
In a recent and now widely seen Tucker Carlson interview, a guest historian named Darryl Cooper casually presented a surprising number of flawed theories about World War II. He focused his misstatements on the respective roles of Winston Churchill’s Britain and Adolf Hitler’s Germany—especially in matters of the treatment and fate of Russian prisoners, the Holocaust, the systematic slaughtering of Jews, strategic bombing, and the nature of Winston Churchill.
Because of the size of the audience Carlson introduced him to, and because of the gravity of Cooper’s falsehoods, his assertions deserve a response.
On the Treatment of Russian Prisoners
It is simply not true, as Cooper alleges, that Hitler’s Wehrmacht was completely surprised and unprepared for the mass capitulation of the Red Army and some two million Russian prisoners who fell into German hands in summer 1941.
The virtual extinction of these POWs in the first six months of the war was a natural consequence of a series of infamous and so-called “criminal orders” issued by Hitler in spring 1941 to be immediately implemented in his planned “war of extermination” in the East.
The edicts variously targeted for elimination prominent Soviet officials, intellectuals, Jews, and commissars. Just as importantly, Hitler exempted German soldiers from any criminal liability in what was expected to be the mass killing of Russians and Jews in general.
In Mein Kampf, during the lead-up to the war, and even through the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact years, Hitler had planned eventually to invade Russia, destroy the Soviet Union, put an end to what he called Jewish Bolshevism, and annex and then eventually resettle almost all of European Russia. In part he was encouraged by the German success in briefly absorbing much of Western Russia in late 1917 and early 1918.
Accordingly, Hitler and his planners envisioned a quick Russian campaign. Chief of the Army General Staff, General Franz Halder, believed that Operation Barbarossa, which began on June 22, 1941, had essentially been won in its first eleven days. Halder matter-of-factly wrote in his diary that the Russian population would have to be disposed of during that first winter to save Germans the effort of feeding and maintaining them.
Hitler further assumed the liquidation of Soviet-style Marxism was inseparable from the destruction of all the Jews in the East, whose wartime persecution began in Poland just days after the German invasion in September 1939 and well before any Allied response.
True, some of the invading Wehrmacht officers may have been disturbed at the sheer mass of captives and Germans’ inability to offer even the bare essentials of humane treatment. But they quickly learned from Berlin’s doubling down on earlier eliminationist directives that they were not to worry about the millions of doomed Russian prisoners or the murders of Jews, given their deaths were consistent with prior Führer directives for the future resettling of western Russia.
At Nuremberg and after the war, many veteran generals of the Eastern Front claimed they privately opposed Hitler’s orders of total war that entailed liquidation of communists and Jews and assumed the mass death of Russian POWs. But very few could prove that they had not received such orders or had bravely opposed their implementation.
Who Was Responsible for Starting World War II?
As for Cooper’s claim that the Allies were to blame for starting a world war, nothing could be further from the truth. Hitler may have been frustrated that Britain and France declared war on him after his unprovoked invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939. But he had been warned by some advisers that the two allies would be finally forced to war, given that he had broken almost all his prewar promises to them about ceasing his serial territorial acquisitions.
Helpful.
Is it really that helpful? Anyone with a decent grasp of WW2 knows all this. The main problem is not Cooper. He’s a crank—not a guest historian as Hanson calls him. The main problem is Tucker having him on his platform and praising him. Praising a Hitler apologist? Really? Hanson is missing in action on the main issue and calling Cooper a “guest historian”because he doesn’t want to criticize Tucker. It’s embarrassing.
I’m sorry to see Tucker give this crank a platform. Years ago I could be sure that absolutely nobody would take this “historian” stupidity seriously, but now, who knows? It seems much of the people of his ilk(Candace Owens) are using these falsehoods to justify antisemitism. I can’t remember when I’ve ever heard such historical stupidity. I’m glad legitimate voices are speaking up.
I like Tucker Carlson primarily for his perspective on dometic issues. Once he leaves US borders, he becomes a bit suspect. Not in the sense of a hidden agnda. Carlson is as transparent as it gets. But he has a tendecy to bring on people who finance his existing beliefs *because* they finance his beliefs.
This is very true. Although, I don’t believe he is totally transparent. Tucker makes a habit of letting his guests make the controversial points that he in fact, believes. Then he simply nods in agreement letting them do the bulk of messy comments. When the heat comes later, he always says he’s just giving a free speech voice to every opinion. And then he carefully backs down and gets mad at the person that’s offended by the show. Most reason case in point: Seth Dillon.
Great initial response VDH. I get the feeling there may be more to this but if not this was dandy. I saw several long snippets of this interview Tucker had with Mr. Cooper. I was struck actually at the lack of questioning/pushback from Tucker (whom I greatly admire) on the subject. I was thinking “Tucker NEEDS to get a differing (and accurate) version from you. Hopefully, this response will make it’s way to Tucker and he’ll speak with you.
One of the most enlightening reads I’ve ever absorbed was you recent work ” The Second World Wars.” I would gladly lend my copy to Tucker to read along with a link to your great Hillsdale course on the same.
I agree with you completely. Very disappointed that Tucker didn’t vet Mr. Cooper.
of course he “vetted” him. Tucker had him on bc of his lunatic views, not in spite of. in all the time Tucker was in Fox he never once mentioned Israrl except for a few covid-related stories. he’s been a closet antisemite for awhile now.
I absolutely agree! Though he did have various anti-semites on like Jimmy Dore. The views colonel Doug McGregor, Glenn Greenwald and even Tulsi gabbard are borderline not in support of Israel… To be gracious.
I think his views of Israel mostly come down to not wanting to defend a war there, in the same way that he doesn’t want to defend a war in Ukraine. He was probably the most anti-war pacifist on Fox.
Though I agree. He most certainly seems to be headed more to a anti-Semitic view. And I think he even helped Candace Owens along with her stance.
Victor, thank you so much for lending your voice and authority (rightly earned) to correcting Tucker Carlson’s take on Winston Churchill and WW2. Tucker is one of my subscriptions and I think he is generally a very positive force for comment on the present difficulties we face in the country. But I wince in agony when he exposes his ignorance of WW2 and Winston. I take this as an example of the reality of freedom of expression … some will be good; some will be bad. It is up to each of us to learn enough about the topic to form our own opinion. But we should understand that we are blessed to have this freedom of thought. It would be great if you could have a conversation with Tucker on either your website or his.
Thank you – one rebuttal worth more than the annual subscription fee.
I guess the question arises: for what purpose is Tucker Carlson giving guest historian Darryl Cooper access to his [Tucker’s] huge following in order to spread revisionist history?
I’m not a historian, but I strongly oppose revisionist history – I oppose it regardless of who performs the revisions.
There is a difference between someone presenting factual data that had been suppressed (witness COVID-19) and someone presenting crackpot ideas that have no traction whatsoever in the scientific community – and no evidence to support.
So why give this crackpot a wide audience?
It’s my belief that the whole interview was about trying to turn Tucker Carlson’s audience against the war Israel has had to fight in Gaza; and as well try to convince us we shouldn’t support Bibi Netanyahu. They basically compared Germany to Gaza as an innocent; and Netanyahu to Churchill as a warmonger.
Tucker is becoming an anti-semite in his hatred of war and lack of willingness for the US to defend Israel in any way.
Neither Cooper nor Tucker seem to understand the Biblical mandate though both claim to be a Christian.
A simple search of Cooper will cause doubt that he is, and if Carlson has become a Christian, he’s a brand new baby with a lot to learn.
To turn us against Israel is the only reason I can find for airing this crazy, historically inaccurate interview.
I have read a great deal about the Second World War and have never heard of Darryl Cooper or seen his work cited by any of the reputable historians writing on the causes of the war or the extermination policies the Germans applied in eastern Europe. I suspect he’s not unlike the Holocaust deniers in their “look at me” attempts at revisionist history which no informed person takes seriously. Cooper should be ignored. It’s Tucker Carlson who deserves reproof for giving him an opportunity to spout his nonsensical views and not forcefully challenging them. He should atone by having Nicholas Stargardt, Mark Mazower, or VDH himself, on his programme for a serious discussion of the subject.
Five minutes into the Cooper interview I smelled a rat and immediately asked, “What will VDH have to say about this?”
It is, sadly, no surprise that Tucker would have this man on his program, as after all, he has continually referred to our country as a “democracy”.
Tucker claims to be a history major, yet he doesn’t know or doesn’t care that we are a constitutional republic.
And, we are a constitutional republic given the Founders’ desire to prevent the rule of the majority.
Jim, Tucker does not resort to claims of authority based on his credentials. He is one of the few who express his opinions as opinions, and he ends up saying things that are obviously true that are observable and yet our pitiful commentors in the employ of the old media conglomerates twist themselves into pretzels trying to deny the obvious about an issue that is an outrage to any ethical principle. Other than Kimberly Strassel’s occasional comment, the only thing that really sticks in my mind about their (the main streamers) work product is Paul Gigot’s inevitable “on the hand” whereupon he scraps something off the bottom of his shoe of uncertain origins and spins another narrative developed to obscure the issue. These are a form of inside baseball comments. They are related to the evolution of the narrative, not the obvious truth of the issue.
My criticism of Tucker would be that he focuses on symptoms and seems unable to assess the deeper issues. But he is one of the few who are willing to call the balls and strikes, even if he lets a few of Gaylord Perry’s spitballs pass thru unnoticed as the batter swings for the fence and misses.
and my criticism of him is he is a flaming antisemite who picks this moment—a few months before an election and at a time when antisemitism has become a global problem—to let his Jewhate flag fly.
Definitely questionable timing and very much seems to want to turn his viewers against Israel. I believe it is more out of it fear/hatred of War than it is anti-Semitism. But everything he’s doing and the guests he’s interviewing, definitely lead us to have to consider the possibility that he is indeed anti-Semitic..
We all hate war! But most of us understand there is a time for righteous War. And if anyone has that reason, Israel does.
I am beyond tired of everyone acting like Tucker is not to be criticized. It’s past time someone called him out. Good for VDH.
This may sound a bit unfair to Mr. Cooper. I listened to the TC podcast with him and was surprised at the number of misstatements and unfounded analyses he offered. I am reminded that Confirmation bias is a tool for grifters. If some feel Mr. Cooper was engaging, believable, and likable, I would expect that to be the case. I’ve never heard of any successful grifter who was lacking in those qualities.
As usual, VDH demonstrates his deep understanding of WWII (read his book and make yourself smarter). As in any discipline there are true scholars as well as kooks. Cooper certainly falls in the kook basket. Tucker should stick to fly fishing.
While I have never heard of cooper I agree with Dr McMeckin that ww2 would not have been possible without the Molotov Ribbentrop pact. Churchill was not in a position of government to start the war and he accurately assessed Hitlers inability to resist attacking the USSR and USA
I always liked Tucker and his program. But since he left or was forced out, at times he has gone off the deep end. Kind of sad. Also sad to misrepresent or support the misrepresentation of the history of WWII.
I admire both Victor and Tucker. Each has done excellent work in their respective fields. And I welcome opposing points of view.
As for the truth, Victor is a proven authority of ancient as well as contemporary history. In truth Mr. Hanson is intellectually superior to most mere mortals.
Thanks to Tucker, I have discovered that VDH has a blog for me to enjoy.
But is the fabric of history so weak that it can’t withstand a challenge from one amateur?
I would like to see VDH go on Tucker show and refute Cooper.
Unfortunately, the currency of expert consensus and argument from authority/establishment has taken a beating recently, what with climate catastrophism, 50 retired FBI assessments on Hunter laptop, unquestionable integrity of elections, Covid mRNA vax, Lancet expert letter on Covid origin, and now even the judicial system… we could all go on for pages.
Perhaps I am primed for distrust from my youth living under Communists in eastern Europe.
But I am starting to feel like I am back at home.
I think too many commenters here are giving too much benefit of the doubt to Carlson. I have as well, in the past, but no longer. As powerful as VDH always is in setting historical matters straight, this is not an issue where there’s an open question of basic facts. For reasons known only to himself and God, Tucker is saying and doing very intentionally. And doing a lot of damage in the process.
Definitely questionable timing and very much seems to want to turn his viewers against Israel. I believe it is more out of it fear/hatred of War than it is anti-Semitism. But everything he’s doing and the guests he’s interviewing, definitely lead us to have to consider the possibility that he is indeed anti-Semitic..
We all hate war! But most of us understand there is a time for righteous War. And if anyone has that reason, Israel does.
I am beyond tired of everyone acting like Tucker is not to be criticized. It’s past time someone called him out. Good for VDH.
Good as far as it goes, this rebuttal by VDH seems truncated. Will there be more? I believe it would be useful.
As usual, I have so much great respect for Professor Victor Davis Hanson to set things straight about true facts of WWII. I will add to his comments that after invading France in May 1040 and by extension , Belgium and the Netherland, and forced the British army to a miraculous escape through Dunkirk, Hitler was not considering the English people as under men (unlike the Russian and the Jews). Hitler was disappointed by the fact that England had declared war to his regime and was hoping that with a “peace agreement” with Churchill, he would have all the ability to execute his plan to invade Russia before the summer of 1941. But Winston Churchill was the last defiant politician to Hitler’s ambitions and his famous speech in which he famously declared …”we will never surrender..”, somewhere forced Hitler’s army to launch the Luftwaffe against England’s RAF in hope to destroy England’s air force and prepare an invasion of England. That plan failed miserably. The Luftwaffe lost numerous planes, air pilots in the sky of England, and most of it precious time, because the whole operation pushed back “operation Barbarossa” to the end 1941’s Summer. That was a fatal miscalculation by Hitler.
The starvation of Russian POWs was a well known consequences. The Economic bureaus of Hitler’s government, including the forecasts by the economic staff of the Wehrmacht General Staff, estimated the total food production and consumption. Consumption was greater than production so they decided who would be starved to death.
Brilliant as ever!
I don’t know what to believe anymore. They said JFK was assassinated by the US government, Obama is gay, Trump a Russian spy, VDH was a farmer, Brigitte Macron is a man, Kamala Harris is a VP and presidential nominee, Biden is the president of the U.S.A., Cheney is Darth Vader and America is not an empire. HAHA
Thank you so much. I’ve been so disturbed that Tucker Carlson would be so irresponsible with his platform. He has a large audience who trust him. In my opinion, he abused that trust by inviting Daryl cooper to spread lies and propaganda. I am so disappointed in Carlson.
Belated–
Happy Birthday, Professor.
Dear Mr. Hanson,
I very much appreciate your podcast and publications. Your profound knowledge of European History is an enrichment. On your latest podcast I do have a question:
Regarding the payments to be made by the Weimarer Republik to the victors of WW 1 I understood Article 262 of the Versailles Treaty that payments are to be made in Dollars and Pounds and their respective gold values. Roughly the equivalent of 7000 tons?
Being German you can trust me that I have no sympathy for Wilhelm 2, a crippled maniac with an ego far beyond his limited intelligence, whilst being enlightened by the likes of Bismarck (who clearly saw Elsaß Lothringen as a key to the Pfalz, which for centuries had been attacked by the French and at the same time acknowledging the fact that this piece of France will be indigestible in the long run) or Ferdinand Foch (who viewed the treaty not as a peace treaty but a 20 year armistice). If we separate events from patterns of behaviour we can see a structure to which I attribute the swaying politics towards the Weimarer Republik as much as after WW 2 to the fact that the reminder of Germany was intended to be a bulwark against communism. The painter from Austria clearly misunderstood global politics already before June 41. The British Empire had already issued the draft and it was going around the world by then, whilst a quick attack in 1939 would have brought an end immediately.
Like the 1619 Project, Cooper cherry picks history to make a point.
I wonder how the story became more about Hitler than “Winston”, a reference someone here used. Churchill made many mistakes leading into WWII and, for example the deal he made with Stalin at Crimea, into the Cold War. Roosevelt, with his antisemitic leanings, bailed Churchill out for a time. It would be good to read an objective analysis of him, and not trust the standard narrative so much.
Defending Tucker, as he frequently does with the most fringe guests like Cooper and Putin, his role is to expose the thinking of the guest, which doesn’t require a debate.
I’ve listened to Martyr Made for about as long as he’s been on the net. He is by nature a contrarian. That does not make him right, but his positions are not without substance. It struck me that both he and Tucker share a skepticism about the the cause of the current war in Ukraine. Suggesting there’s more to understanding WW2 parallels the current need to understand who is promoting the war in Ukraine. It’s not Darrel Cooper and it’s not Tucker Carlson. Churchill and WW2 was the vehicle, not the topic of the podcast.
Darryl Cooper is wrong about many things. He may be right about some others. Carlson is quite bold in his willingness to talk to every stripe of opinion. He also interviewed Vladimir Putin, whose point of view many reject, didn’t listen too but still condemned Carlson for. Is the object of the interviewer to condemn, disparage or scold the interviewed party or hear them out, so their opinions are know, whether you agree with them or not. Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t.
I may think Cooper is very very wrong, but better to shine some light on them instead of letting his twisted thought go unchallenged. Better to hear them and hear VDH’s response then to let the errors fester and be absorbed by the ignorant and under educated on the internet. We would not know what the podcaster was spewing unless Carlson brought to the light. We should not shoot the messenger.
Well except the messenger was agreeing with the inaccurate narrative. It’s past time Carlson was called out. He’s done this far too often causing the anti-Semitic comments about Tucker to seem accurate.
I am a great admirer and follower of both VDH and Tucker. As I was listening to Tucker’s interview with Darryl Cooper, I became wary of some of his assertions. Though I am not a scholar concerning WWII, I have read and studied about the war my entire life. Some of Cooper’s conclusions were new to me and contrary to conventional understandings. I have found that if a subject is well known and exhaustively researched over an extended period of time that new unique insights need to be held in question. Cooper maybe correct, but it will take a great deal of convincing to accept his work over the scholarship of over Dr. Hanson.
Tucker was letting his guest do the talking so men like VDH can critique him. So many are attributing the guest’s views to Tucker himself.
Victor, I am confident that if you ask Tucker for a sit-down, he’d do it. I would LOVE to see you and Tucker together.
Too short a response for all the lying enabled by Tucker…Victor tends to be habitually blindsided by his unbounded, unrealistic, and undeserved granting of loyalty to those whom don’t reciprocate it…Although loyalty is an admirable trait, it is often abused, even by close associates, just like his articulately inept podcast co-hosts whom remain on air, instead of moving along, despite their obvious shortcomings suppressing the podcast’s potential quality…
Amazing information, Victor. Just listening to your Saturday podcast about the end of World War I the battles the inter Familia assassinations that led up to World War I and World War II. For those of us who are not stepped in this history. Please, please please whenever you say we or whenever you say, they identify who it is which country which group of countries which personal Leader because many times it is not clearly evident to those of us who do not know the history well. For instance, yes he killed a lot of people during the fam and 20 million people who was that? I’m assuming Hitler? Or was it Stalin? Or was it both of them. And what fam please explain? The information is glorious and abundant, but for explaining very detailed specific information, it is necessary for a highly educated teacher to drop down to the level of people who know to be highly effective in his communication and teaching them.
Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini were demons in human form. Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin were the saintliest men who ever lived. Too bad they aren’t still running things, right?