{"id":5360,"date":"2008-04-02T21:37:13","date_gmt":"2008-04-02T21:37:13","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/victorhanson.com.108-166-28-151.mdgnetworks.com\/wordpress\/?p=5360"},"modified":"2013-04-09T21:38:15","modified_gmt":"2013-04-09T21:38:15","slug":"real-talk","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/real-talk\/","title":{"rendered":"Real Talk?"},"content":{"rendered":"

The Saudi king ought to stop killing non-Muslims first.<\/h1>\n

by Raymond Ibrahim<\/p>\n

National Review Online<\/em><\/p>\n

A<\/span>ccording to the\u00a0Associated Press<\/a>, Saudi King Abdullah, in an unprecedented move last week, \u201cmade an impassioned plea for dialogue among Muslims, Christians, and Jews\u201d \u2014 going so far as to refer to the latter two as \u201cour brothers.\u201d The\u00a0Jerusalem Post<\/i>\u00a0states<\/a>\u00a0that such talks would be geared to developing \u201crespect among religions.\u201d<\/p>\n

The Arabian kingdom, however, is famous for tenaciously upholding and exporting \u201cWahhabism\/Salafism,\u201d that literalist brand of Islam that preaches absolutely no tolerance \u2014 murdering apostates and condemning all non-Muslims as infidels \u2014 and famous also for having supplied 15 of the 19 hijackers of 9\/11, \u201ceducating\u201d fellows such as Osama bin Laden, and boasting asword<\/i>\u00a0on its national flag. One can\u2019t help but question the old monarch\u2019s motives.<\/p>\n

More tellingly, days before the king\u2019s call for dialogue, prominent Saudi Sheikh Abdul Rahman Barack issued a death-fatwa against two Saudi writers. Their crime? They wrote articles in the Saudi paper\u00a0Al-Riyadh<\/i>\u00a0questioning the Muslim position that holds all non-Muslims \u2014 whom the Saudi king would otherwise call \u201cbrothers\u201d \u2014 as infidels. According to the\u00a0Arab News<\/a><\/i>, Barack said: \u201cAnyone who claims this [that non-Muslims are not infidels] has refuted Islam and should be tried so that he can take it back. If not, he should be killed as an apostate from the religion of Islam.\u201d<\/p>\n

Does this mean that King Abdullah truly believes Christians and Jews are\u00a0not<\/i>infidels, and if so, does that also mean a fatwa for his life is forthcoming?<\/p>\n

At any rate, is the Saudi king aware that \u201cdialogue\u201d is supposed to be held by two or more singular participants who nonetheless genuinely believe that they share some basic human rights \u2014 such as the freedom to practice whatever religion they wish without being molested? Only civilized peoples who are agreed to such fundamentals can move on to more temporal matters, such as territorial disputes (e.g., Israel\/Palestine). But what is the point of having \u201cdialogue\u201d over secondary matters when the primary issues \u2014 basic human rights \u2014 are not endorsed by all participants?<\/p>\n

In Saudi Arabia, the facts remain: native citizens who dare convert to Christianity must be slain; absolutely no churches or any other \u201csymbol\u201d of non-Muslim worship (e.g., crosses, rosaries, Bibles) is permitted on the peninsula; non-Muslims are barred from entering Mecca or Medina.<\/p>\n

These are just the visible forms of intolerance practiced in the home of Islam and its founder. Theoretically \u2014 or rather, theologically \u2014 speaking, the worldview of Wahhabism\/Salafism is even worse: whenever the opportunity presents itself, the whole world must be brought under Islamic rule, either willingly or by the sword, following the pattern of the Islamic prophet and the first \u201crighteous\u201d caliphs. What is even more troubling is that this Muslim view of world conquest isn\u2019t merely a product of certain obscurantist schools of Islamic thought; rather it is the codified worldview of all four schools of jurisprudence in Sunni Islam. In fact, it is a communal duty (a\u00a0fard kifaya<\/i>) imposed on Muslims.<\/p>\n

S<\/span>o where exactly does Abdullah get the gall to call for \u201cdialogue\u201d? The measure of any community\u2019s sincerity and tolerance toward nonmembers is how well that community treats nonmembers under its suzerainty. The West treats all religions roughly equally (in fact, Christianity often seems to be the most under attack).<\/p>\n

In the United States, for example, Muslim minorities have the exact same rights \u2014 to build places of worship (mosques), publicly carry their scriptures (Korans), to worship and proselytize, and, simply, to\u00a0be<\/i>\u00a0Muslim \u2014 as do Christians and others. That is proof that the West is prepared for dialogue over ancillary matters: it has already visibly demonstrated that it firmly believes all humans are guaranteed basic rights.<\/p>\n

Countries like Saudi Arabia evince no respect for basic human rights and freedoms. The contrast is amply demonstrated by the\u00a0recent comments<\/a>\u00a0of one high ranking Saudi who said that \u201cIt would be possible to launch official negotiations to construct a church [note the singular] in Saudi Arabia only after the Pope and all the Christian churches recognize the prophet Muhammad\u201d \u2014 which of course would make all Christians Muslim. How would Muslims react to a requirement that, to build mosques in the U.S., they must first publicly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?<\/p>\n

Perhaps the greatest proof that the old king was being insincere is the fact that, in his ostensibly \u201cmulti-culti\u201d speech, polytheists are conspicuously left out. Abdullah continuously stressed that this dialogue is to be only with \u201cour brothers in all religions which I mentioned, the Torah [Jews] and the Gospels [Christians].\u201d If the Saudi king was honestly trying to promote religious tolerance around the world, why weren\u2019t polytheists invited to the talks? Specifically, why weren\u2019t Hindus invited, who also have a long and often bloody history with Islam, including territorial disputes (e.g., Kashmir) that continue to this day?<\/p>\n

The theological reason is that polytheists (\u201cal-mushrikun\u201d) are held in an even worse position than Christians and Jews (whom the Koran refers alternatively to as \u201cpeople of the Book,\u201d but in the latter chapters and verses \u2014 which take precedence, according to most systems of Islamic jurisprudence \u2014 as \u201cinfidels\u201d who must be fought in perpetuity). So while Abdullah\u2019s \u201cbrothers,\u201d Jews and Christians, can in fact keep their religion (once subdued and made to live according to second-class, \u201cdhimmi\u201d status), polytheists must either convert, or die.<\/p>\n

It is impossible to see the Saudi king\u2019s motives in this monotheistic-faith ecumenism as completely sincere. His \u201cimpassioned plea for dialogue\u201d is certainly worthy of support. However, the starting point of that discussion must be the Muslim world\u2019s treatment of the non-Muslims in their midst. Once Saudi Arabia affords basic human rights to Christians and Jews \u2014 not to mention Saudi citizens who wish to convert \u2014 then dialogue over secondary matters can ensue. Until then, the Saudis have no place at the negotiation table.<\/p>\n

Raymond Ibrahim is the editor of the\u00a0Al-Qaeda Reader<\/i>, translations of religious texts and propaganda.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The Saudi king ought to stop killing non-Muslims first. by Raymond Ibrahim National Review Online According to the\u00a0Associated Press, Saudi King Abdullah, in an unprecedented move last week, \u201cmade an impassioned plea for dialogue among Muslims, Christians, and Jews\u201d \u2014 going so far as to refer to the latter two as \u201cour brothers.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_is_tweetstorm":false,"jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false}}},"categories":[227,838],"tags":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p466Sb-1os","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":910,"url":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/saudi-grand-mufti-calls-for-destruction-of-all-churches-in-region\/","url_meta":{"origin":5360,"position":0},"title":"Saudi Grand Mufti Calls for “Destruction of All Churches in Region”","author":"victorhanson","date":"March 15, 2012","format":false,"excerpt":"by Raymond Ibrahim Jihad Watch According to several\u00a0Arabic\u00a0news\u00a0sources, last Monday, Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, declared that it is \"necessary to destroy all the churches of the region.\" The Grand Mufti made his assertion in response to a question posed by a delegation from\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Religion"","block_context":{"text":"Religion","link":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/ahref=\/index.php\/categories\/angry-reader\/categorylink\/a\/religion\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1447,"url":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/in-the-jaws-of-sharia-the-liberal-and-the-temptress\/","url_meta":{"origin":5360,"position":1},"title":"In the Jaws of Sharia: The Liberal and the Temptress","author":"victorhanson","date":"November 19, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"by Raymond Ibrahim Private Papers Editor\u2019s Note: These postings were taken from\u00a0Jihad Watch\u00a0and\u00a0Pajamas Media, internet journals in which the author posts frequently. 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