{"id":2007,"date":"2011-09-30T17:53:32","date_gmt":"2011-09-30T17:53:32","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/victorhanson.com.108-166-28-151.mdgnetworks.com\/wordpress\/?p=2007"},"modified":"2013-03-14T17:56:57","modified_gmt":"2013-03-14T17:56:57","slug":"why-muslims-are-more-radical-than-islamists","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/why-muslims-are-more-radical-than-islamists\/","title":{"rendered":"When Muslims Are More &#8216;Radical&#8217; than Islamists"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>by Raymond Ibrahim<\/p>\n<p><em>PJ Media<\/em><\/p>\n<p>What are the differences between the traditional Muslim and the so-called &#8220;Islamist&#8221;? As\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.raymondibrahim.com\/10217\/muslim-radicalization-in-the-eyes-of-the-beholder\">words dealing with Islam<\/a>\u00a0continue to morph and multiply, it is important to differentiate, for there are real, if subtle, differences.<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>A recent\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.raymondibrahim.com\/10134\/mubarak-deceived-israel-as-muhammad-deceived\">Arabic talk show<\/a>\u00a0on Egypt&#8217;s former president Hosni Mubarak&#8217;s trial sheds some light. The question was whether Mubarak, in the sight of Sharia law, should stand trial and be punished for, among other things, selling gas cheaply to Israel \u2014 or, as popularly portrayed, traitorously giving away Egypt&#8217;s precious resources to its mortal enemy.<\/p>\n<p>Two Islam authorities debated. Taking the controversial position \u2014 that Mubarak should not be condemned \u2014 was Sheikh Mahmoud Amer, leader of Ansar al-Sunna, or, those who imitate prophet Muhammad&#8217;s way of living, which, of course, is what traditional Muslims \u2014 literally,\u00a0<em>Sunnis\u00a0<\/em>\u2014 have always done. His opponent, arguing that Mubarak deserves to be tried without mercy, was famous Islamist lawyer Montaser al-Zayyat (who most recently professed his &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.memri.org\/report\/en\/0\/0\/0\/0\/0\/0\/5618.htm\">love<\/a>&#8221; for Osama bin Laden).<\/p>\n<p>Sheikh Amer, representing traditional Islam, stressed two points to exonerate Mubarak: 1) Dealing with the enemy (in this case, Israel) is permissible according to Sharia; Muhammad himself often appeased his infidel enemies, including Jews, when to his advantage, &#8220;for&#8221; \u2014 as the Sheikh quoted Muhammad \u2014 &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.meforum.org\/2538\/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war\">war is deceit<\/a>&#8220;; 2) According to Sharia, the only justification for deposing a ruler is if he becomes an infidel; if he is unjust, violent, and tyrannical to his Muslim subjects, that is not reason enough.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, the Sheikh&#8217;s position is very much in keeping with Sharia: Muslims \u2014 particularly their political leaders \u2014 are permitted to deceive and dupe non-Muslims, including by playing the role of appeaser, when circumstances call for it; moreover, even Al-Qaeda leader Ayman Zawahiri admits that Islam&#8217;s jurists are &#8220;unanimously agreed&#8221; that &#8220;it is forbidden to overthrow&#8221; Muslim rulers, even if they are &#8220;cruel and despotic,&#8221; whereas &#8220;it is obligatory to wage jihad against&#8221; rulers found to be &#8220;apostate infidels&#8221; (<em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.raymondibrahim.com\/books\/the-al-qaeda-reader\">The Al Qaeda Reader<\/a><\/em>, pgs. 121-122, 129).<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s interesting to note, then, how &#8220;Islamists,&#8221; such as Zayyat, who appear tenacious of upholding Sharia, sometimes advocate positions that actually contradict it. To understand this phenomenon, one must first understand &#8220;Islamism&#8221; \u2014 a hybrid abomination of sorts, whereby the better principles of Western civilization are absorbed and rearticulated within a distinctly Muslim paradigm. For instance, the Western stress on human freedom, human dignity, and universal justice, is, for Islamists, transformed into a stress on\u00a0<em>Muslim<\/em>freedom,\u00a0<em>Muslim<\/em>\u00a0dignity, and\u00a0<em>Muslim<\/em>\u00a0justice \u2014 all, naturally, at the sake of the infidel.<\/p>\n<p>So while the Islamist maintains traditional hostility for infidels, he may exhibit a Western sense of &#8220;humanitarianism&#8221; to fellow Muslims, evoking things like their &#8220;human worth&#8221; and &#8220;dignity.&#8221; Zayyat, for instance, repeatedly accused Mubarak of &#8220;robbing the people,&#8221; &#8220;betraying the people,&#8221; &#8220;torturing the nation&#8217;s sons,&#8221; &#8220;denying sons from their mothers and fathers&#8221; \u2014 language as alien to the traditional Muslim mentality as it is familiar to the Western. Similarly, Islamists influenced by the Western notion of &#8220;nationalism&#8221; tend to Westernize Islam&#8217;s notion of Umma, as when Zayyat talked sentimentally about how &#8220;the Umma has a right&#8221; over Mubarak.<\/p>\n<p>As Sheikh Amer indicated, however, traditional Islam \u2014 born of the deserts of 7th-century Arabia, and so, ever pragmatic \u2014 makes clear that the authority, the sultan, can be as ruthless as necessary with Muslims \u2014 Western concepts of fairness and equality be damned. Moreover, the nationalist element evoked by\u00a0<em>Zayyat<\/em>\u00a0is non-existent in Islam proper:\u00a0<em>Umma<\/em>\u00a0originally meant &#8220;community&#8221; (and in Koran 6:38 is even used to describe communities of animals).<\/p>\n<p>These discrepancies were summed up towards the end of the show, when the traditional Sheikh exclaimed: &#8220;I say to Mr. Montaser al-Zayyat that you will be asked on Judgment Day about these claims you&#8217;re making \u2014 that he [Mubarak] took money and was a Zionist traitor. I am here telling you what the prophet said and what the prophet did [that it is permissible to deceive the enemy and that the ruler is above censure], and here you&#8217;re talking nonsense?!&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Lest it appear that Islamists are more &#8220;humane&#8221; than traditionalists, it should be kept in mind that the\u00a0<em>other\u00a0<\/em>\u2014 the non-Muslim \u2014 is viewed by both groups as the infidel enemy. In fact, whatever subtle differences may exist, the similarities between the Islamist and Muslim are many. Thus, while the traditional Sheikh and the Islamist argued over Mubarak&#8217;s fate, there was never disagreement over two points \u2014 enmity for Israel and Jews, and the permissibility of\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.meforum.org\/2538\/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war\">using deceit<\/a>to undermine them.<\/p>\n<div align=\"center\">\n<p>\u00a92011 Raymond Ibrahim<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>by Raymond Ibrahim PJ Media What are the differences between the traditional Muslim and the so-called &#8220;Islamist&#8221;? As\u00a0words dealing with Islam\u00a0continue to morph and multiply, it is important to differentiate, for there are real, if subtle, differences.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_is_tweetstorm":false,"jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false}}},"categories":[29,225,227],"tags":[161,1035,228,1017,1061,239,30,545],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p466Sb-wn","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":1213,"url":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/the-ultimate-lesson-of-egypts-fake-photo\/","url_meta":{"origin":2007,"position":0},"title":"The Ultimate Lesson of Egypt&#8217;s Fake Photo","author":"victorhanson","date":"October 19, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"by Raymond Ibrahim PJ Media One of the most\u00a0widely circulated\u00a0newspapers in the world, Egypt's\u00a0Al Ahram, recently ran a\u00a0fake picture\u00a0depicting Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak walking in front of US President Barack Obama and a pack of other Mideast leaders. In fact, based on the original photo, Mubarak, the octogenarian, appeared trailing\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Raymond Ibrahim&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Raymond Ibrahim","link":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/ahref=\/index.php\/categories\/angry-reader\/categorylink\/a\/our-contributors\/raymond-ibrahim\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":2431,"url":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/mubarak-deceived-israel-as-muhammad-deceived-infidels\/","url_meta":{"origin":2007,"position":1},"title":"Mubarak Deceived Israel as Muhammad Deceived Infidels?","author":"victorhanson","date":"August 19, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"by Raymond Ibrahim Hudson New York In light of ousted president Hosni Mubarak's ongoing trial, Western readers may be surprised to learn who some of Mubarak's staunchest defenders are: Salafi Muslims, that is, those Muslims who practice the 7th-century Islam of Muhammad, often referred to as \"radicals.\" Sheikh Mahmoud Amer,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Egypt&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Egypt","link":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/ahref=\/index.php\/categories\/angry-reader\/categorylink\/a\/the-world\/the-middle-east\/egypt\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1191,"url":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/islams-slave-soldiers-return-to-egypt\/","url_meta":{"origin":2007,"position":2},"title":"Islam&#8217;s Slave-Soldiers Return to Egypt","author":"victorhanson","date":"January 4, 2012","format":false,"excerpt":"by Raymond Ibrahim Stonegate Institute The myths of a \"patriotic\" or \"altruistic\" Egyptian military carefully protecting the \"rights\" of its citizenry \u2014 the narrative of the mainstream media of the January 25 Revolution \u2014 are long gone. Back in January, it was natural to conclude that the Egyptian military was\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Egypt&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Egypt","link":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/ahref=\/index.php\/categories\/angry-reader\/categorylink\/a\/the-world\/the-middle-east\/egypt\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":3848,"url":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/why-the-egyptian-revolution-can-be-the-best-or-worst-thing-to-happen\/","url_meta":{"origin":2007,"position":3},"title":"Why the Egyptian Revolution Can Be the Best or Worst Thing to Happen","author":"victorhanson","date":"February 5, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"by Raymond Ibrahim NRO's\u00a0The Corner It is clear that the media and its host of analysts are split in two camps on the Egyptian revolution: one that sees it as a wonderful expression of \"people-power\" that, left alone, will naturally culminate into some sort of pluralistic democracy, and another that\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Egypt&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Egypt","link":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/ahref=\/index.php\/categories\/angry-reader\/categorylink\/a\/the-world\/the-middle-east\/egypt\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":4080,"url":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/egypt-on-the-brink-bradley-reveals-instability-in-modern-egypt\/","url_meta":{"origin":2007,"position":4},"title":"Egypt on the Brink: Bradley Reveals Instability in Modern Egypt","author":"victorhanson","date":"January 22, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"by Raymond Ibrahim Middle East Quarterly A review of\u00a0Inside Egypt: The Land of the Pharaohs on the Brink of a Revolution\u00a0by John R. Bradley (New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2009). To the general reader,\u00a0Inside Egypt\u00a0is a good introduction to some of the problems rife in the most populous, Arabic-speaking country. From\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Egypt&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Egypt","link":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/ahref=\/index.php\/categories\/angry-reader\/categorylink\/a\/the-world\/the-middle-east\/egypt\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1161,"url":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/egypt-cuts-a-deal-christians-fed-to-muslim-lions\/","url_meta":{"origin":2007,"position":5},"title":"Egypt Cuts a Deal: Christians Fed to Muslim &#8216;Lions&#8217;","author":"victorhanson","date":"October 27, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"by Raymond Ibrahim Hudson New York For centuries, the Copts \u2014 Egypt's Christian, indigenous inhabitants \u2014 have been subject to persecution, discrimination, humiliation, and over all subjugation in their homeland (etymologically, \"Copt\" simply means \"Egyptian\"). In the medieval era, such treatment was a standard aspect of sharia's\u00a0dhimmi\u00a0codes, first ratified under\u00a0Caliph\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Raymond Ibrahim&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Raymond Ibrahim","link":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/ahref=\/index.php\/categories\/angry-reader\/categorylink\/a\/our-contributors\/raymond-ibrahim\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2007"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2007"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2007\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2009,"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2007\/revisions\/2009"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2007"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2007"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/victorhanson.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2007"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}